Curse

jesh · Oct 06, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Does anyone have tips for a mesmer healer? I made one because I've already tried everything else, well.. except warrior. That's next, hehe.

Right now, I'm at the Iron Mines mission, so I'm just using Recall/Channeling/Inspired hex for energy. I think I have 12 healing/13 inspiration/5 fast cast at the moment.

What kind of skills would you all suggest to be more effective? This is really more like a e/mo healer, because I get so much energy from those skills I usually struggle to waste it all.

I'm using all enchanters armor with my henge +20% enchant sword, and a collector's 20/20 focus, if that matters at all.

*note* This is just for fun in pve, I don't think I'd ever take this to tombs or anything.

FalconDance · Oct 07, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Regardless of what I' ve seen others have said here (in forum), Fast Cast is a sweet ability and you should put a few more points in it. The turn around speed for firing off a spell reduces dramatically (up to a point, of course).

Other than that, perhaps a little illusion?

But then again, I play a Domination/Illusion Me/Mo with enough healing that I *can* act as party healer if given advance warning before we head out (which is really rare.......)

Dont Look At My · Oct 07, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

If you want to be a healer go Monk/xx, no xx/monk class is good for healing, because you cant get over 12healing prayers and you have no divine favor.

octaviancmb · Oct 07, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Look At My

If you want to be a healer go Monk/xx, no xx/monk class is good for healing, because you cant get over 12healing prayers and you have no divine favor.

While Monk primaries are certainly unrivaled in their raw healing power, he's talking about PvE here, which doesn't really need 200+hp Orisons and 326+ health Words of Healing. Even at zero Divine Favor, skills like Aura of Faith (24% more healing) and Divine Boon (+25 health heals for 2 energy) can be worthwhile, especially considering the amount of energy mitigation he's got planned.

A non-Monk primary with 12 Healing and 10 Protection can get up to a 117 point Orison and still have several attribute points and an elite skill slot to do something else with.

Where a Mes/Mo is really going to shine, IMHO, is in Protection, though. Assuming you have a monk who's going to be healing in the group, a couple of Life Attunements can really turn difficult battles around. Through Fast Casting and Mantra of Recovery, you can get a pretty much perpetual Aegis all by yourself. Protection + Inspiration work particularly well together (Guardian/Aegis + Spirit of Failure for more energy than you'll likely ever need).

A Mes/Mo protector can be relatively successful in PvP, too.

Good luck with your Mes/Mo and try not to be discouraged by the Monk union's rhetoric of hate!

cmb

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 07, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Me/Mo is a BigITCH to be interrupted and also, with the right setup, when the monk is out of energy [which will happen in both pve/pvp], the Me/Mo will still be casting due to a much more powerful array of energy stealing skills.

Mo Secondary Healers are awesome in pvp if you can hide them smart enough. With the right energy setups, when the primary monks run dry, the secondaries can pick up the slack. THey're not as good, but they'll out last a primary monk no problem.

Let's not forget that a mesmer can protect as well as a Primary Monk. They have skills for removing enemy buff enchants, destroying OR stealing enemy hexes, and have skills that stop any class from doing his job. That's just as efficient as just any healing type. If I made a hidden "healer" Me/Mo, it'd be something like this...

12+1+3 Inspiration
8+1 Fast Casting
10 Protection

Energy Drain {E}
Arcane Echo
Ether Feast
Inspire Hex
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Convert Hexes
Mend Ailment

The fast casting REALLY kicks these spells into high gear and interruption can be nigh-impossible unless the enemy can forecast your actions properly.

Arcane Echo is the real deal since it can let you double spam necessary skills. Got two teammates buried in hexes? Double Convert ftw. Need to refil your energy bar after doing Arcane Echo? Double E. Drain!

*yes he's protection but he can heal too.

Ollj · Oct 07, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Look At My

If you want to be a healer go Monk/xx, no xx/monk class is good for healing, because you cant get over 12healing prayers and you have no divine favor.

and if you want to be a good healing monk you only have 12 healing, you dont care for divine favour and like to be never out of energy.

Moskel · Oct 07, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Try running something like this and you might be amazed at how well you heal.

Speedy Healer

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Wield: X Sword of Enchanting 20% / 20/20% Healing Focus

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration: 12 (10+2)
Healing Prayers: 12

Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Orison of Healing (Healing Prayers)
Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
Healing Seed (Healing Prayers)
Remove Hex (Monk other)
Energy Drain [Elite] (Inspiration)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
Vengeance (Monk other)

You could swap the Vengeance for hard res in PvE. Breeze and Seed both give good HPE (Health Per Energy) and don't rely on the DF bonus to do so. You shouldn't have a whole team of healers like this but one of these with a Mo/x healer is better in a lot of cases than 2 Mo/x who often end up overhealing and healing slower.

Effigy · Oct 07, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

What's the point of Fast Casting for heals? Most heals you should be using have a 1 sec cast at most, usually less. Shaving a couple milliseconds off the cast time is a waste of attribute points and the loss of Divine Favor.

I've heard people use the "disguised" monk argument before, but it's essentially flawed. The idea is to play a monk, but hide it behind a different primary in hopes that the enemy won't target you first; the problem is that you're switching out your effectiveness along with your primary, so you end up as just a gimped monk that doesn't need to be targetted first because he's not as good as a real monk. Anyway, mesmers are one of the first professions to get targetted anyway, so this tactic isn't really going to accomplish much regardless.

Thinking outside the box is fine, but remember that the box is there for a good reason.

sledgeunderhill · Oct 07, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

In the party I generally run with, there's a fast casting protection me/mo. She uses the worth's rod & the collector focus, so the 20/20/20/20 has ample opportunity to trigger.

With echo and other fun boosts, having her on the team makes UW/FoW a breeze and complements the standard monk skills.

octaviancmb · Oct 07, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

What's the point of Fast Casting for heals? Most heals you should be using have a 1 sec cast at most, usually less. Shaving a couple milliseconds off the cast time is a waste of attribute points and the loss of Divine Favor.

I'm not disputing anything you're saying here, but lets look at what many people might consider a good Me/Mo healing build (the one listed directly above your reply), and consider why Fast Casting is a good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration: 12 (10+2)
Healing Prayers: 12

Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Orison of Healing (Healing Prayers)
Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
Healing Seed (Healing Prayers)
Remove Hex (Monk other)
Energy Drain [Elite] (Inspiration)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
Vengeance (Monk other)

Moskel's opted for the efficient 12/10/8 attribute point spread, and the build will have full health, so no drawbacks there -- no need to go into a superior rune at all.

His 9 Fast Casting will have very little noticeable effect on his Heal Other or Orison of Healing (the bread-and-butter heals on his bar) because they're already quite fast (which is fortunate for Monks). Healing Breeze, however, will fire in .68 seconds -- very hard to interrupt. Healing Seed and Remove Hex are 1.35 -- interruptable, but certainly not as easily as the full 2 seconds. He'll have to be being camped to be interrupted here. Energy Drain and Inspired Hex are both reasonably quick anyway, but also get reduced to the "much harder" range -- .68 seconds. But it's Vengeance that gets the real boost: he can res someone in 2.71 seconds -- much faster than a res signet, and they come up full and ready to go.

Energy Drain and Inspired Hex should help to keep his Energy topped off, or at least at a level he can comfortably use Heal Other. Healing Seed and Healing Breeze, as he says in his own examination of the build, are fine HPE heals that Divine Favor adds nothing to.

So what is this build *good* at? Obviously it's not going to be *as good* as a primary Monk at healing, but it doesn't need to be. What the build excells at is removing hexes and countering calamity. It's much harder to interrupt his solid heals and de-hexers. If he wanted to make it even more difficult, he could add a superior Fast Casting rune (making his 2 second spells 1.25 second casts and Vengeance a 2.48 second cast).

Secondary Monks can be a great boon to primary Monks. The enchantments in Moskal's build can help fuel the primary Monk's Dwayna's Kiss, boost up an Ether Renewal, or stand as cover enchantments for more important spells.You just have to accept the limitations of secondary Monks (less effective healing) and utilize their advantages (speed, energy management, access to other unique skills, better armor, etc).

Is Fast Casting better than Divine Favor? Not in most builds, but certainly it is in this build which uses lasting enchantments to heal rather than instant healing. The decrease in casting time (with the added decrease in chance of being interrupted) is a valuable enhancement onto these spells; arguably it's much more valuable than the extra 48 health the target would gain from 9 Divine Favor. If he happens to get hit with Arcane Conundrum or Migrane or become Dazed, the Fast Casting lets him recover far, far quicker and more safely than a Monk primary could. Fast Casting has a place in a party; it's a very different place than Divine Favor, but it's still a valuable attribute.

cmb

Effigy · Oct 07, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Using this for PvE would be fine I'm sure. I'd never suggest running it for PvP though, unless you seriously switched gear and changed a lot of the skills. This setup has a slight edge over a primary monk in a couple areas (in PvP), but in the current format I don't think those advantages come close to outweighing the sacrifices you make for them.

I don't even play RP mode anymore, so you'd have to talk to someone else about that.

jesh · Oct 07, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I might try protecting some time in the future, I enjoy it. For those of you that didn't bother to read anything other than the subject line, I've already tried every single class as a healer already, hence why I'm doing mesmer now. This is what I'm using now, and it's almost brainless. I have so much energy I almost can never waste it all.

3+1 Fast Cast
12+1+1+1+1 Inspiration
12 Healing

Heal Area
Contemplation of Purity
Rebirth
Heal Other
Infuse Health
Mantra of Recall (29 energy!)
Inspired Hex (16 energy)
Healing Breeze

Ditched Channeling cause it wasn't even needed. I can use contemplation for emergency energy, though that's a rarity. I've learned to work around the 20 second energy boosts.

I can't wait till I can finish thunderhead, (waiting for guildies to get on), so that I can go get signet of midnight. Spirit of Failure will net me 5 energy per miss.

After I get that, I want to see how good fast casting is without an energy elite, (dual attunements), then I'll try out protecting. I had never though of guardian/aegis + spirit of failure! Thanks for the input on that one. ^^

Oh, and forgive me if I don't have healing breeze, I just find it too slow for my liking. I'd rather hardcore heals in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Mo Secondary Healers are awesome in pvp if you can hide them smart enough. With the right energy setups, when the primary monks run dry, the secondaries can pick up the slack. THey're not as good, but they'll out last a primary monk no problem.

So true, I kept my part alive for at least 5 mins on that stupid TK mission, while the primary healer was at 2 energy. He had all ascetics armor and the yakslapper too.

People need to learn what energy management is. The almost unlimited energy from recall at high inspiration, to me, almost makes me as worthwhile to take along as a monk primary, because when the heals are most needed, they'll be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Where a Mes/Mo is really going to shine, IMHO, is in Protection, though. Assuming you have a monk who's going to be healing in the group, a couple of Life Attunements can really turn difficult battles around. Through Fast Casting and Mantra of Recovery, you can get a pretty much perpetual Aegis all by yourself. Protection + Inspiration work particularly well together (Guardian/Aegis + Spirit of Failure for more energy than you'll likely ever need).

A Mes/Mo protector can be relatively successful in PvP, too.

I'm not sure I get how I can have a constant aegis up..? Fast casting would just shorten the cast time, not the recharge. Would you care to explain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Good luck with your Mes/Mo and try not to be discouraged by the Monk union's rhetoric of hate!

cmb

Thank you!

::EDIT AGAIN::
Omg I just thought of something.. take Shield of Deflection as my elite, combine with guardian and spirit of failure ftw. Sweeeet.

Amused Observer · Oct 08, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

As I see it, the main benefits of squeezing a Me into the character is to prevent spell interruption, and echoing spells. I don't buy the disguise healer as mesner argument in pvp only b/c mes are usually the first priority, even before monks.

You can argue for Me/Mo or Mo/Me, but as mentioned by cmb, divine favor isn't important if the character is a protect monk. I would go Mo/Me, nontheless, b/c you can use Monk runes to boost your attributes.

octaviancmb · Oct 08, 2005, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I'm not sure I get how I can have a constant aegis up..? Fast casting would just shorten the cast time, not the recharge. Would you care to explain?

Mantra of Recovery {Elite} - Stance
For 5-17 seconds, spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

With high enough Fast Casting, you'll be able to almost perpetually keep Aegis up if you use Mantra of Recovery (which is currently the only skill tied to the attribute). You'll want to run energy recovery skills to enable this, however, since they both have beefy energy requirements. But you seem to be doing this, anyway. Note that it can be difficult to balance the needs of three attributes (FC, Insp, Prot) to achieve this. But it's possible.

Again, good luck with the Mes/Mo. I've had a lot of fun with my own.
cmb

jesh · Oct 08, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Ah I see.. actually I could do that, since I have my +20% enchant henge sword.. the mantra would make it possible. That's cool. Will the "block" from aegis count as a "miss" for spirit of failure?

Dont Look At My · Oct 08, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

While Monk primaries are certainly unrivaled in their raw healing power, he's talking about PvE here, which doesn't really need 200+hp Orisons and 326+ health Words of Healing. Even at zero Divine Favor, skills like Aura of Faith (24% more healing) and Divine Boon (+25 health heals for 2 energy) can be worthwhile, especially considering the amount of energy mitigation he's got planned.

A non-Monk primary with 12 Healing and 10 Protection can get up to a 117 point Orison and still have several attribute points and an elite skill slot to do something else with.

Where a Mes/Mo is really going to shine, IMHO, is in Protection, though. Assuming you have a monk who's going to be healing in the group, a couple of Life Attunements can really turn difficult battles around. Through Fast Casting and Mantra of Recovery, you can get a pretty much perpetual Aegis all by yourself. Protection + Inspiration work particularly well together (Guardian/Aegis + Spirit of Failure for more energy than you'll likely ever need).

A Mes/Mo protector can be relatively successful in PvP, too.

Good luck with your Mes/Mo and try not to be discouraged by the Monk union's rhetoric of hate!

cmb

We're not hating, I agree with you for the Mesmer/prot monk one, because it played it for a long and it really rockz, but mesmer/healer monk is just crap. If you want to heal you have to have monk as primary class.

jesh · Oct 08, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Update - Aegis+Guardian will not make use of spirit of failure, should have guessed. Ah well.

jciardha · Oct 09, 2005, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

What's the point of Fast Casting for heals? Most heals you should be using have a 1 sec cast at most, usually less. Shaving a couple milliseconds off the cast time is a waste of attribute points and the loss of Divine Favor.

My mesmer, (Fast Casting 12, BTW) has successfully interrupted and powerblocked 1 second casting times. 1 second ... it's too long.

Effigy · Oct 09, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I'd rather have Divine Favor and take a low chance of getting interrupted by a mesmer, than stick a ton of points in Fast Casting, loss Divine Favor, and cast heals in 1/4 sec instead of 1/2 sec, or 1/2 instead of 1 sec. Call me crazy...

jesh · Oct 10, 2005, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Please close this topic too, since brainless people keep not reading and posting anyway. HIGH INSPIRATION MAKES UP FOR THE DF, PEOPLE. Geez.. -_-

I've very sucessfully played the healing build I posted in all the ring of fire missions, which is basically as hard as it gets for pve. Yes, there were times when the "real" monks couldn't keep up, and I had to keep everyone healed. Yes, they can heal for more than mesmers.

This is all known, now stop reposting the same thing as the last guy.

And call ME crazy, but there have been innumerable times were I have outcasted a savage shot/blow or concussion shot by the tiniest margin, and those fast resses can be real team savers, too. Keep your DF, and I'll keep outlasting you.

*note* The monks that ran out of energy were using OoB and the glyph/spirit thing, so don't get on me about energy management. They were good monks that I know personally, and I respect them as healers/protectors, but there's just not a comparison as far as energy management goes.

*second note* I used this build for a couple missions and loved it, works awesome.
12 fast cast
12 protect
11 insp or so? Can't remember

Shield of Deflection {e}
Guardian
Spirit of Failure
Rebirth
Reversal of Fortune
Aegis
Archane Echo
Inspired Hex

The main idea is to cast spirit of failure on a target at high health, that can attack fast, prefferably. When it recharges, pick another monster. Use Shield/Guardian on whoever is getting hit to regain energy, all you need is around 3 hits to make those a free cast. The more hexed enemies, the faster you can protect. Aegis is an emergency skill. I echoed it as needed, I had the energy to do so.

** Notice the longest enchant I have is 10 seconds, which means even on the areas that are really enchant removal heavy, this build still did just fine, since I switch targets/renew enchants a lot anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Mantra of Recovery {Elite} - Stance
For 5-17 seconds, spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

With high enough Fast Casting, you'll be able to almost perpetually keep Aegis up if you use Mantra of Recovery (which is currently the only skill tied to the attribute). You'll want to run energy recovery skills to enable this, however, since they both have beefy energy requirements. But you seem to be doing this, anyway. Note that it can be difficult to balance the needs of three attributes (FC, Insp, Prot) to achieve this. But it's possible.

Again, good luck with the Mes/Mo. I've had a lot of fun with my own.
cmb

I tried this, and I can see how it works, but it sure takes getting used to. I could always get off 2 Aegis in a row, but the third one is harder to pull off in time, and I think I only got a fourth one once. I have to admit though, constant Aegis is seksi.

Thanks for the ideas!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jciardha

My mesmer, (Fast Casting 12, BTW) has successfully interrupted and powerblocked 1 second casting times. 1 second ... it's too long.

I power spiked a flame burst once, it was hardcore.